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31 Aug

Testing Water Fuel

Posted by 24 comments

Thanks to my workshop friend, Ah Wah, who let me installed the water fuel in my Spectra for testing without charge. The followings are observations and analysis.

Test conditions:

Car spec: Kia Spectra 1600 cc, automatic transmission, year 2002 imported model.

Normal fuel consumption: 380 km for each RM100 filling (RM2.70 per litter), or RM0.26 per km.

Driving routes: 27 km per journey or 54 km per day, village roads, 19 traffic lights, rush hours.

Weather conditions: mostly dry, a few days raining.

Hy-Gen32 water fuel tank installed. Current drawn unknown but was told between 5 to 6 Amperes. Oxygen sensor position was adjusted.

Observations:

First impression, initial start up performance improved, car was more responsive. Performance throughout the journey was satisfactory, in fact I enjoyed the performance. Driving speed were mostly less than 90 km/h.

Occasionally driving on high way, where the speed increased to 110 km/h. No noticeable improved in performance. In fact I felt like as the water fuel was not installed.

At the fuel price of RM2.70 per little, I managed to travel 480 km before the refilling of RM104.

Analysis:

Fuel consumption: RM104 / 480 km = RM0.22 per km.

Compared to my normal consumption, I saved RM0.04 per km.

Hence per month I saved about RM50 on the fuel.

Less performance improvement on the high way is expected, since the hydrogen is produced at the constant rate, the hydrogen-fuel ratio is less than when driving on the high way where the fuel demand is high.

Conclusion:

The water fuel costs RM800 (price offered by Ah Wah), it takes 16 months to get your money back. Besides, you have to drive in the city to enjoy the fuel-saving benefits.

As this is considered as new technology, I do not have any figures of the life of this product, nor other statistics such as MTBF, MTTF, etc, sorry.

Since I only managed to test only on my Spectra, I have no comments on its performance when installed on other cars. However my feeling is that it would not save you much if your car is already a high fuel efficient type.

You decide.

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  1. December 16th, 2010 at 13:10 | #1

    i would love to use hydrogen fuel on my car, this fuel is really nonpolluting but is not yet very available :'”

  2. October 12th, 2010 at 13:24 | #2

    i think that the best fuel that we can use is Hydrogen, this does not product polluting gases at all.;*

  3. July 23rd, 2010 at 12:21 | #3

    hydrogen fueled vehicles are the best but they are still not widely available.::*

  4. May 20th, 2010 at 08:42 | #4

    Hydrogen Fuel is very promising, i only hope that we can mass produce soon enough.’:.

  5. February 4th, 2009 at 23:13 | #5

    Greatings,
    Not sure that this is true) but thanks

    Thank you
    Saurooon

    • drkhtang
      February 5th, 2009 at 09:35 | #6

      I should have updated this post with the latest info.

      It worked, but only a short time. It got corroded after a month or so, and the performance dropped significantly.

      I have removed it now. The only thing I noticed was that the car does not accelerate as it was when the fuel engine was intalled.

  6. drkhtang
    September 10th, 2008 at 18:03 | #7

    Can’t say that, salt is just to increase the conductivity, ultimately the hydrogen is produced from the water.

  7. September 10th, 2008 at 16:26 | #8

    actually if you only want to use distilled water it is possible but the surface area must be large. using electrodes cannot acheive that. what you need is stainless steel plates, something similar to battery plates and probably arranged like battery plates.

    The concept is simple but there are many ways to implement it. so far all the ones i see in the market are no brainer ones. it is actually the alkaline salt which is doing the work not the water.

  8. drkhtang
    September 10th, 2008 at 09:01 | #9

    Yes, salt is alkaline, that’s why stainless steel electrodes are used.

    Well, thing is not as straight forward. First of all, from the energy conservation theorem, if the output is kept at 6 Amp, your input current must be I = 120 / 12 x 6 = 60 Amp, which will overload your alternater.

    Secondly, inverters’ efficiency is even poorer, maybe ~65% or lower?

    Thirdly, voltage is not the only determinant in breaking the water molecule.

    Forthly, AC does a poor job as the change in polarity causes the hydrogen-oxygen ions to recombine back into water molecule.

  9. September 10th, 2008 at 08:10 | #10

    I read in a forum somewhere that the powder is actually aluminium & sodium hydroxide. This is a salt based powder.

    Also using Ohm’s law, if the voltage is increased, the current will increase too if other variables do not change.

    Actually come to think of it since your device harness both gases from both electrodes, it is also possible to use AC. i think it is not too expensive to get a 12VDC to 230VAC inverter. Pasar road sells it. By doing that you can just use water without addictives.

  10. drkhtang
    September 9th, 2008 at 21:39 | #11

    Yes, and I think the electrodes are stainless steel based to avoid corrosion. According to the guy, you just have to add it every six months. But I have no idea where to get the additive. In fact I am keen to try running it without the additive.

    Increasing voltage using DC-DC converter is not a solution, as the amount of current flow directly reflects the amount of hydrogen produced, regardless of the voltage applied to it, not to mention the efficiency of DC-DC converter is only ~70% practically.

    There are other suggestions, such as using pulsating current, which claims to achieve higher throughput than direct current. Anyway I have no time to test it.

  11. September 9th, 2008 at 18:23 | #12

    It does seems that the poweder is the one making the resistance of the water drop. It could be a kind of salt based powder as salt generally increases the conductivity of water.

    Then again, how long can the solution last in the tank before you need to top up additional water + buy that powder. Unless the powder does not deteriorate in the water, you just keep diluting it with distilled water ?

    Actually you can increase the electrolysis process by giving this device more voltage.
    How ? maybe can use a dc-to-dc converter to increase the dc voltage to say 60volt. by that time the electrolysis is 5 times more. hah, just a thought…..

  12. drkhtang
    September 9th, 2008 at 11:49 | #13

    The current drawn issue relates directly to the distance between the two opposite polarity electrodes. Theoretically the nearer the distance, the easier to break the water’s dielectric barrier. Since the device is fabricated manually in the amateur way (I believe), they cannot control the distance between the electrodes accurately.

    And yes, you are right that they did add some additive, in powder form, to the distilled water. No information what this additive is, but I believe it is some kind of alkaline based additive to aid the conductivity.

    Sorry I am a very NO camera man, who is still carrying Nokia 8210.. however you can view the device here:

    http://www.vasanoholdings.com/Hy-Gen32.html

  13. September 9th, 2008 at 09:00 | #14

    I think you are right. Firstly this device purpose is to supplement the gasoline combustion so the rate or % of hydrogen & oxygen going into the combustion chamber is low. So the increased heat may be negligible as the current cooling setup in the car might be possible to still manage.

    However what I don’t get is the current draw of 5-6 amps! If the current drawn is that much then the resistance of the water is about 2 ohms which is impossible unless an addictive is added in the water. Even if large surface plates are used i do not think such high current is drawn for electrolysis.

    It will be nice if you can post some pictures of the installation for all of us to see.

  14. drkhtang
    September 6th, 2008 at 22:25 | #15

    Yeah, I am aware of that too. In fact I was a little worried about the temperature and put some efforts in monitoring the temperature. It seems that the amount of hydrogen produced does not give rise to the engine temperature. It only aids the combustion, something similar to those additives you can buy off the shelf.

    The water car technology we read was totally different in concept. It replaces gasoline completely with hydrogen by producing large amount of hydrogen and stores them in a compressed tank, which is quite dangerous.

    I am now doing my second stage of the testing, i.e. driving the car on the high way instead of kampung roads, to see the effects.

  15. September 6th, 2008 at 21:49 | #16

    Tang,

    You will need to be vary of the hydrogen combustion. If I am not mistaken, hydrogen combustion temperature is much higher than gasoline. Therefore it is possible to shorten the life of some engine parts like your valves. Your valves will warp prematurely and you might have to spend more $$$ in the end by doing an overhaul.

    In the Water Car document downloaded from the internet, I remember that the car owners change their valves to ceramic ones to withstand the higher temperature.

  16. drkhtang
    September 4th, 2008 at 10:40 | #17

    He verbally said he will, but must be reasonably proven.

  17. ktang
    September 4th, 2008 at 10:32 | #18

    like that hor….mmmm….if after install the fuel consumption remain same then got refund or not?

  18. drkhtang
    September 4th, 2008 at 10:27 | #19

    According to Ah Wah, the standard Hy-Gen32 warranty is three years. In addition, on reasonable basis he offers money-back guarantee if the performance is unsatisfactory.

  19. ktang
    September 4th, 2008 at 10:19 | #20

    how long the supplier is able to commit for the warranty period?

  20. drkhtang
    September 2nd, 2008 at 16:39 | #21

    Compared to turbo charge and super charge technologies, this one is more scientifically proven.

  21. bhng
    September 2nd, 2008 at 15:39 | #22

    Hi Tang. Thank you for the interesting analysis and findings. It is surprising to know the performace is actually not degraded and yet can save a bit on the fuel consumption. Good for those with high mileage.

  22. drkhtang
    September 2nd, 2008 at 12:06 | #23

    This is a good question indeed. I have just called my insurance agent and he confirms that this would not affect the policy. Anyway, he advised to email a note to your respective insurance company for recording purpose.

  23. Ang
    September 1st, 2008 at 14:25 | #24

    I read an article this thing is not approve by the so called authority & the insurance company or car warranty may be affected ..?

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